# Conversations with Shoghi Effendi

*Exported from [Holy-Writings.com](https://www.holy-writings.com/) on 2026-06-21 — 1 clipping.*

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> Source: Bahá'í Library Online (bahai-library.com), curated by Jonah Winters. Used by permission of the curator. Original citation: May Maxwell, Conversations with Shoghi Effendi, bahai-library.com.
> ──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
> 
> Conversations with Shoghi Effendi
> 
> May Maxwell
> 
> 1924
> 
> [page 1]
> 
> CONVERSATIONS WITH SHOGHI EFFENDI
> 
> From informal notes taken by Mrs. May Maxwell at Haifa in 1924,
> and
> reproduced for the information of the Bahá'í friends
> 
> with the permission of the National Spiritual assembly.
> 
> You will like to hear something of the daily life and more intimate
> impressions of our beloved Guardian from those who have had the privilege
> and blessing of being near him for many months.
> 
> Shoghi Effendi does not wish us in any way to dwell on his personality,
> but to turn our heart's love and longing, as he does, to the Infinite Sun
> of Truth, to the Bab, Bahá'u'lláh and 'Abdu'l-Bahá, and through adoration
> of that Divine Beloved to attain perfect love for one another, because
> this is the sign of real faith and sincere devotion.
> 
> Every form of separation or division, of classifying ourselves or one
> another, of having a group consciousness, or of thinking of the Bahá'ís in
> terms of duality, is a reflection of the material world of today, and not
> of that realm of truth and oneness which the Bahá'ís are destined by God
> to reflect and manifest.
> 
> He says we must entirely banish from our thoughts all such limited
> concepts and realize that absolute oneness is the Bahá'í consciousness. It
> is not necessary that all Bahá'ís should think and feel exactly alike, but
> that all should unite in obeying the divine instructions, and in active
> co-operative service to the Cause of God.
> 
> We must never speak or think for a moment of these limited ideas, but
> create in ourselves and in each other a oneness and solidarity of thought
> and action, which shall constitute a mighty spiritual power subduing unto
> itself all the limited, narrow and negative concepts and conditions of the
> world.
> 
> It is this Bahá'í attitude, this closely knit and united Bahá'í body in
> America, rather than any organized plan of action which will profoundly
> affect the people and constitute a magnet drawing to itself all those who
> are seeking spiritual happiness and tranquility for themselves and for
> mankind.
> 
> Thus the standard of life and conduct of Shoghi Effendi for the believers
> is very high, and his family told us that he is not satisfied with
> anything short of perfection.
> 
> [page 2]
> 
> He wants the Bahá'ís to so live amongst themselves and in their
> communities that they will show forth the light of Baha to the world.
> 
> Ruha Khanum told me the following significant words spoken by the beloved
> Master to His Family. He said in substance as follows: "I am a loving and
> indulgent Father to all. I am very kind. You know only my love, my mercy,
> my forgiveness, my leniency, but it will not be always so. The time will
> come when I shall not be here to pour this love so freely, because you
> must be trained and disciplined and become obedient and attain to the
> divine standard."
> 
> The sweetness of the Master's love on which He nurtured us for years would
> have been sufficient and would have created in us an entirely new life and
> condition had we been more pure and selfless, had our capacity for this
> celestial food been greater.
> 
> But certain spiritual sickness and weakness crept in among us for which
> the remedy lies in the hands of our Guardian.
> 
> One day he said: "I know it is difficult to reconcile the teachings and
> instructions of the Master.
> 
> "In one case He exhorts us to be brave and courageous and on the other
> hand to be prudent.
> 
> "He commands us to exercise justice, on the other hand to be merciful. He
> wishes us to be frank and direct, at the same time to be discreet.
> 
> "How can we reconcile these things?
> 
> "It is very difficult, I realize that it is difficult, but as the
> believers grow in spiritual strength and maturity they will find the
> perfect balance of truth and justice, they will attain to wisdom."
> 
> Shoghi Effendi discusses the affairs and conditions of the Cause with
> astonishing openness and frankness, he does not like secrecy and told us
> many times that this openness, frankness and truthfulness among the
> friends constitutes one of the great remedies for many of our
> difficulties, and he sets us the example of free and open consultation.
> 
> With a modesty and simplicity which one must see in order to appreciate,
> because it is foreign to our American temperament, he invites suggestion
> and consultation from the visiting friends and from those around him.
> 
> [page 3]
> 
> He listens to every suggestion with the utmost courtesy and seriousness
> and then brings to bear upon it the light of his wonderful lucid mind, his
> clear all-comprehensive thought, his powerful and penetrative judgment.
> 
> The spirit of criticism is abhorrent to Shoghi Effendi, he will not permit
> a breath of criticism of one believer of another and although he wants to
> hear the truth of every matter this must be based on sincerity of purpose.
> He instantly detects the least insincerity of motive or effort to
> influence him in any way.
> 
> He is never influenced or swayed in the divine authority with which God
> has vested him, but exercises a perfect protection and tender guardianship
> over every soul.
> 
> In speaking of a certain matter which was troubling him at the time he
> said, "You see I wish to know the motive behind these actions," and then
> with his beautiful young face full of laughter, "I do not like to be put
> off and put off and have the matter delayed and when they are dealing with
> an impatient person like myself it becomes very difficult."
> 
> He laughs at his own impatience for action, for the growth of the Cause,
> for the deep results of real unity and one of the highest terms of praise
> from his lips is - "He is active" - or - "She is an active Bahá'í."
> 
> *************
> 
> One day in discussing the question of submission to the authority of the
> Spiritual Assemb1ies Shoghi Effendi said: "The Master has not left any
> latitude for personal opinion, it is not a matter of reason, it is a
> matter of faith.
> 
> "Some of the instructions and commands may seem unreasonable, but if we
> believe we have faith in them and the sign of faith is obedience. The
> whole question resolves itself into a matter of faith and obedience is the
> proof of faith, it is the result of faith, if we do not obey it is because
> we have not faith in the commands of the Master.
> 
> "I cannot see it in any other way.
> 
> "When a certain believer was here the question was put to the Master very
> plainly; supposing that in a Convention the
> 
> [page 4]
> 
> will of the majority, the decision of the majority is against my
> individual conscience, suppose that my conscience cannot agree with their
> decision, must I submit my conscience to the will of the majority?
> 
> "The Master answered that the individual conscience must yield to the
> majority. He left no room for doubt on this point. He not only gave the
> command, but He explained the reason for it. He said that if each one
> followed his own conscience there would be no result, confusion would
> reign as no two consciences agree, therefore we must follow the will of
> the majority.
> 
> "At the present time this institution, this organization is absolutely
> necessary, it may not always be so but now it is necessary, and all must
> follow it without any exception."
> 
> It is a Divine Organization, the Institute of God for the establishment of
> His Kingdom upon earth. Shoghi Effendi said that this Institute is
> perfect, although its functioning and operation is necessarily imperfect
> in our present state of development and understanding, but as the Bahá'ís
> become matured and perfected, it will be found to be the most perfect
> Institute the world has ever known.
> 
> The energy of our Guardian is inexhaustible, and as he retires at one or
> two o'clock in the morning, his working day is very long.
> 
> His strength and vigour never flag, the stress of work, the magnitude of
> the complex problems pouring in daily in voluminous mail from every corner
> of the earth seem to serve to renew his forces, the progress of the Cause
> is reflected in his joy, his buoyancy, his eager enthusiasm and absorbed
> interest.
> 
> But when the welfare or progress of the Cause is menaced through the lack
> of love and harmony among the believers in any part of the world, when
> this sad news reaches him, his divine happiness suffers eclipse, his
> strength ebbs away.
> 
> ************
> 
> On another occasion Shoghi Effendi said in substance that he had written
> explicitly to America saying that the work of teaching was first in
> importance and overshadowed everything else, even the Mashriqu'l-Adhkar.
> 
> [page 5]
> 
> That as we teach and spread the Cause and many new souls arise they will
> help in this important work.
> 
> He said that the believers should grasp the essential and important things
> at this time and not diffuse their energies in many directions. He dwelt
> on the necessity of teaching and maintaining a strong teaching fund, the
> contributions to which must be entirely free and voluntary.
> 
> I then told him that some of the friends felt that sending out teachers
> and paying their expenses was not desirable, tending to affect the dignity
> of the Cause in the eyes of the world and creating what in time must
> appear as a priestly order.
> 
> In stating this I quoted the exact words of some of the friends in
> America. Shoghi Effendi said that there were three elements which
> constitute a priestly or paid order of teachers and that by entirely
> eliminating these three elements the Bahá'í contributions for the expenses
> of traveling teachers bore no resemblance whatever to a priestly order.
> These three elements are: I. Obligatory contributions
> II.
> Contributions made at regular intervals
> III. Contributions made for a
> definite person If a certain amount is given at a certain
> definite time for the expense of a definite person, this is a priestly
> order, but if free and voluntary contribution are forwarded to the
> National Spiritual Assembly or to the teaching committee to advance the
> work of teaching and of sending out teachers into the field, that this is
> active co-operation in the Cause of God. "How else", he said, "is the work
> of teaching to be carried on? If the friends do not do this the Cause of
> God will suffer. How do you suppose", he continued, "that Bahá'u'lláh and
> 'Abdul-Baha carried on the vast work for years? Was it not through the
> active support and co-operation of all the friends in the East?" Then I
> said that some of the friends felt that the teachers who go out in the
> field should be self-supporting, using Martha Foot as a shining example of
> this principle, who is able by her pen and other means to support herself
> in her far-reaching travels in the Cause of God.
> 
> [page 6]
> 
> He said this was very good wherever a person combined the qualifications
> of a teacher with means or ability to be self-supporting, this was very
> acceptable.
> 
> But he said, "Suppose some one is a good teacher who has a wife and family
> to support, or who is free to travel but has neither the means nor the
> ability to support himself, should we refuse him and say, `No, we do not
> want you.' We must avail ourselves of every means to spread the Teachings,
> otherwise the Cause of God will suffer. Some teachers are very frugal,
> others are less so, some have the strength and ability to support
> themselves while traveling, others have not. We must believe them when
> they say they have not, we must trust them. Everything depends on this
> trust in one another. The friends must trust the National Spiritual
> Assembly with their problems and with their money. As this trust in one
> another grows and deepens the Cause of God will grow stronger. The friends
> in the East have great trust and confidence. I hope that the friends in
> America will attain this same trust.
> 
> With his dazzling smile He left us, saying: "I am very busy. My time is
> full. Now I must go with Mirza Azizullah Khan and go through some writings
> and papers. At three o'clock Miss L (an American pilgrim) is coming to see
> me. She is leaving tomorrow and I want to talk with her. Then Mons. R (a
> pilgrim from India) is coming. Then I have to go over the manuscript of
> Mirza Mahmood, an important book he is writing on the Cause. Afterwards I
> go to the Shrine on Mount Carmel to oversee the excavating, the garden and
> the new pump which is sending water to the upper level. I will attend the
> men's meeting tonight and before retiring go through all my mail."
> 
> If I could only convey to you the spirit of his words, how vividly he
> pictures the true Cause of God on earth, the association, solidarity,
> co-operation and mutual support of all the friends!
> 
> Shoghi Effendi says that the burning question before us is the means of
> spreading the Cause and the most perfect and wise way to present the
> Message to the people.
> 
> Mankind in general is ready and eager for the divine teachings and the
> principles of Bahá'u'lláh meet with universal response and supply a
> universal necessity.
> 
> But this is not sufficient.
> 
> [page 7]
> 
> The high standard of Shoghi Effendi is not satisfied with this wide-spread
> attraction and sincere admiration. He says, "We must make real Bahá'ís,
> those who will become active supporters and ardent adherents to the Cause
> of God."
> 
> Then he said: "There are certain things one must accept in order to be a
> Bahá'í; a faith and belief in the Manifestation of God, in the Bab,
> Bahá'u'lláh and 'Abdu'l-Bahá. People will say this is dogma; certainly
> this is dogma, we must not be afraid of dogma, which is a statement of
> certain unchangeable truths.
> 
> "The Principles of the religion of Bahá'u'lláh which are being spread in
> the world today, are only a part of the Bahá'í religion. To believe in
> these principles, and to teach these Principles, is not sufficient. It is
> necessary to teach these Principles of Bahá'u'lláh, because through them
> the world will become awakened and true civilization will become
> established, but it is only through thc belief in the Manifestation of God
> Himself, through the recognition and adoration of the Source of the Light,
> that the world will become regenerated."
> 
> The working of this mysterious power is not seen at once, its signs steal
> over the earth like the finger of dawn setting all things in unconscious
> motion, and in the vast outer changes, the crumbling away of old social
> systems, the breaking of political crystalizations, the growth and
> expansion of a new born consciousness in mankind sweeping away barriers
> and limitations of the past, seeking new, wider and deeper forms of
> expression, - these are among its visible signs.
> 
> As I write one of the last incidents come to mind: I was in the home of
> the Blessed Master that home of perfect divine love, and had been with the
> dear members of His Family when Shoghi Effendi entered.
> 
> He said to me: "You are most fortunate to be so near the Greatest Holy
> Leaf, bodily close to her. I hope that you will be able to receive
> something of her spirit to take to the friends in America. Her spirit
> is the remedy for all their troubles."
> 
> ************
> 
> [page 8]
> 
> Again we are at Bahje -- the strip of intense blue sea, the distant
> lapping of the waves, the sunlit olive orchard and that all-surrounding
> peace and stillness broken only be the occasional soft note of a bird, and
> into this outer chalice of nature pours continually the emanations of the
> Shrine, a subtle, divine afflatus, permeating earth and air and sky, so
> that one feels that here and on Mount Carmel alone, earth is connected
> with heaven.
> 
> On this holy mountain the soul frees itself from earthly entanglement and
> the cloudy mortal atmosphere is dispelled in the beaming rays of light and
> truth.
> 
> Such divine thoughts and feelings are engendered in the human heart near
> these Holy Shrines as cannot find their true expression in words, but must
> be
> translated into the beauty of character and into a life wholly dedicated
> at the alter of God.
> 
> In closing I want to say to all my loved brothers and sisters that Shoghi
> Effendi's hopes and wishes for us, his explicit instructions are contained
> in his Epistles to America, but that in sharing with you these notes and
> impressions - alas! so inadequate - it is my hope to bring us all nearer
> to that glorious life of servitude and sacrifice, to the beloved Guardian
> of the Cause of God, the visible Sign of our invisible Lord.
> 
> METADATA
> 
> Views16223 views since posted 1997; last edit 2025-09-30 10:19 UTC;
> 
> previous at archive.org.../maxwell_conversations_shoghi-effendi;
> URLs changed in 2010, see archive.org.../bahai-library.org
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> English
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> Scanned 1997 by Robert Stauffer; Proofread 1997 by Vaughn Sheline and Thellie Lovejoy.
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> Citation: ris/743
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> — *Conversations with Shoghi Effendi (Used by permission of the curator)*