# Notes on Shoghi Effendi's Table Talk

*Exported from [Holy-Writings.com](https://www.holy-writings.com/) on 2026-06-19 — 1 clipping.*

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> Source: Bahá'í Library Online (bahai-library.com), curated by Jonah Winters. Used by permission of the curator. Original citation: Mabel Hyde Paine, Notes on Shoghi Effendi's Table Talk, bahai-library.com.
> ──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
> 
> Notes on Shoghi Effendi's Table Talk
> 
> Mabel Hyde Paine
> 
> 1931
> 
> "Excerpts from Notes on Shoghi Effendi's Table Talk"
> Haifa, Nov. 10 to Dec. 2, 1931
> 
> [page 1]
> 
> Bahais are loyal to the government. Bahais should seek administrative
> positions, but must not accept political positions, and must explain why.
> Some Bahais hold important administrative positions in Persia. One Bahai
> is chief Magistrate of a city; one is head of an imperial bank. This kind of
> thing will eventually happen in America. In Persia the Cause is prominent
> enough so that civil authorities look to Bahai methods of administration
> as models.
> 
> Bahais are not to meddle in politics. One meaning of this is that they are
> not to seek political office, but may, administrative. They do not hold
> political office because holding such office involves corrupt practices.
> Non interference in politics is very important (this principle is new and
> unique; other religious bodies make the mistake of interfering in politics).
> An example of the evil of interfering in politics was a Persian (Ali Akbar)
> in Moscow, the most capable Bahai in Russia. He was quite friendly with
> the chief officials of the Soviet government for a time. Finally he became
> involved in politics, lost favor with the officials in power and was exiled
> to Siberia. Bahais in Russia have been suspected by officials of having
> dealings with parties in Persia desiring to oppose the Soviet government.
> They were able to convince the government that they did not do this, and
> that it was a principle of their religion not to interfere in politics.
> 
> When asked whether Bahais should vote he answered that it was better
> for them not to. If questioned about their position in this respect they
> have a good opportunity to explain their attitude of loyalty to the
> government. Their position in regard to voting is a little like that of many
> good people in England, who had achieved party politics but voted for the
> national party in the last election because the country was in such a
> plight.
> 
> This principle of non interference in politics would be a guide in deciding
> such questions as whether Bahais should sign the petition circulated by
> the Women's International League for Peace and Freedom. Bahá'ís should
> question such enterprises and find whether they are political. If not, they
> should sign.
> 
> Bahais are not conscientious objectors because the conscientious
> objectors disregards the good of the world and seeks only to be at peace
> with his own conscience. Bahá'ís, on the other hand, state their position as
> loyal members of the state who yet seek exemption from military service.
> If this is granted, good; if not, they obey the government. Bahais must be
> wise and courageous in taking their own stand before the world. Bahais
> will have their courage tested in such matters. The Bahais should find out
> whether they could gain exemption from military service in something the
> same way as the Quakers.
> 
> There is to be another war. This will involve the world world. This is
> necessary, because a new political structure is needed and cannot be
> erected until the old structure is destroyed. The nations are not yet ready
> to give up their sovereignty. England is not more ready that the United
> States to relinquish her sovereignty, in favor of the League of Nations.
> Shoghi Effendi does not see any immediate prospect of war.
> 
> [page 2]
> 
> President Wilson gained the ideas for his 14 points from the Bahai
> writings, but did not advance to the point of accepting the Bahai Cause. He
> was right in trying to lead the United States into the League. The United
> States must give up its policy of isolation. Wilson saw this but was
> hindered by politicians. Abdul-Baha said that Wilson's work was the dawn
> of peace and Baha U'llah's ascendency would prove to be the rising sun.
> Bahais must show their admiration for Wilson and his ideals though such
> ideals are unpopular in America. The Bahai teaching about a universal
> league of nations is now unpopular, but we should be loyal to it.
> 
> The Mandate Commission of the League of Nations has recommended to
> England expropriation of the Baghdad property. England has recommended
> the same to the government of Iraq. They recommend destruction of the
> houses on the property and making the land into a park. This, Shoghi
> Effendi deplores.
> 
> Most of the Persian representatives in foreign capitals are against the
> Cause and misrepresent it.
> 
> The Catholic Church is weak on the whole, but strong in America. They
> have just received a heavy blow in Spain. Abdul-Baha has said that
> eventually all the sects will scrap their differences in order to oppose the
> Bahai Cause.
> 
> A letter from Queen Marie explained how she was prevented from visiting
> the Holy Shrine and Shoghi Effendi, and how she regretted it. She wrote
> something for the Bahai World which will be reproduced for a
> frontispiece.*
> 
> Baha U'llah says that constitutional monarchy is the best form of
> government. This does not mean necessarily that all governments will
> adopt this form, but probable there will be a tendency this way, especially
> so there seems already a reaction from democracy. Some pomp is
> necessary in order to impress people with the majesty of kingship, but
> England spends too much in this way.
> 
> The principle of obedience to a just government meets something of a
> problem in Russia, as some might say the Russian government is not a just
> government. Shoghi Effendi thinks this government should be obeyed, as
> the Russian people and most of the other governments recognize it.
> 
> Russia and Germany have each a great future. Russia will discard
> Sovietism. In answer to a question as to whether it will be by a gradual
> development or sudden change, he replied that there will be a destructive
> phase and new institutions will evolve. Two disruptive forces are now at
> work, Sovietism (extreme left) and irreligion. A reaction will come in
> favor of religion and against democracy. The right catchword in regard to
> government is: "Government of the people, for the people, by the best of
> the people." The common people are not intelligent enough to make pure
> democracy successful. England will soon see that the seeming victory of
> democracy is not lasting. There will be a reaction and Labor will get in.
> All this will show a lack of stability in a popular electorate. England has
> the most democratic government in the world; i.e., the government is most
> immediately responsible to the electorate.
> 
> *Her sending this contribution to the Bahai World will be an answer to
> those who say that she did not wish to visit the shrines.
> 
> [page 3]
> 
> Bahai organization is not very different in form from other organization.
> The difference is that Bahais have the principle of loyalty in greater
> degree than others. They have the principle spirit of faith, e.g., the
> Esperantists tried to spread Esperanto through the world. They didn't
> succeed, but when the Master wrote one line to the Bahais in Persia
> telling them to study Esperanto, not because it would be the universal
> language, but because it was a universal language, they studied it.
> 
> The supposed quotation from Abdul-Baha that the Bahai Cause is not an
> organization should be; "You cannot limit the Bahai Cause to an
> organization." The Bahai Cause must be organized, just as anything must
> be organized. Institutions are necessary. Most institutions are now
> decadent, but without institutions you have nothing but anarchy. Bahais
> regard institutions not as ends, but as means.
> 
> Bahai government is neither purely democratic not autocratic. It is half
> way between. The House of Justice is not responsible to the electorate but
> to God. The two stage election diminishes the democratic element. The
> Guardian cannot legislate. He has only one vote in the House of Justice. He
> interprets the Sacred Books. The House of Justice is responsible to God
> and is inspired. How far this is applicable to national and local bodies is
> not so clear.
> 
> Some one said that some think that the N.S.A. is elected by those who vote
> by mail. The Guardian replied that the few days of the convention is too
> short a time for delegates to make acquaintance of the friends. They
> should seek all through the year to do this. He does not think the reading of
> all names voted for, an especially good proceedure.
> 
> National committees should not dictate but should consult the desires and
> talents of individuals offering their services.
> 
> The N.S.A. is in the peculiar position of being absolutely dependent on
> voluntary support of the believers. Any appeal given out must be
> dignified.
> 
> Local Assemblies should advise believers in regard to private affairs,
> although Persia carries this custom too far. To the question as to whether
> local Assemblies should take up private problems of an individual believer
> without being asked, he said probably not unless the matter was affecting
> the interests of the Cause.
> 
> Bahai literature cannot go into Persia. It is kept out by the
> government.
> 
> In each country the Bahais have an expecial problem. In America it is
> racial. The main thing is to show the Negro in social ways that we have no
> prejudice. Make sure that the whole Bahai group in a given place is
> unprejudiced. Let them then determine their methods and policy. Bahais
> are not courageous enough in this matter. Bahais are really the only ones
> that have the ideals and sincerity. Discrimination should not be exercised
> on color lines, although it may be necessary on intellectual lines in such
> matters as appointing committees for Bahai work.
> 
> World Unity was one of the divisive elements in the Cause which has
> passed away. I asked if the failure of this experiment indicated that the
> indirect method of teaching should not be used. He said that in some cases
> one had to be cautious and not use the Bahai name, but generally it is
> better to use the name.
> 
> Keirella and Mohammad Ali headed another scism which failed. Mrs. White
> another. She is mentally unbalanced and Shoghi Effendi does not consider
> her responsible. The New history Society is another such movement. This
> is kept going by Mrs. Chanler's money and Ahmad's personality. Both will
> pass. Schism is impossible in the Cause because Baha U'llah provided
> against it in an unmistakable way. The New History Society does what
> they criticize the Bahais for doing. They have much more organization than
> the
> 
> [page 4]
> 
> Bahais. Ahmad Sohrab is dependent on others for money. He is also clever.
> Mrs. Chanler was sincere at first but became too much influenced by
> Ahmad. The best of the people in the New History Society will eventually
> learn the Truth. This episode is hard for New York and they are not over it
> yet. Berlin also had a very bad start. It has often happened that the Bahai
> movement has had a bad start in a given city. Shoghi Effendi was very
> much pleased to receive a letter signed by about fifty believers in
> Berlin.
> 
> Mrs. Ford is well liked in London. In other places as well.
> 
> Bahais will have little to do with establishing the new world order. Of
> course this fact should not prevent them from serving the Cause to the
> utmost of their ability. Unity among the Bahais of the U.S. is much better
> than it was seven or eight years ago. The tasks they now face are teaching
> the Cause and building the Temple. The new plan of Unified Action is good
> and practicable. The local and national assemblies are important as
> foundations of the new political order. Obedience to the majority must be
> established.
> 
> Soon there will be a chain of Bahai centers between Constantinople and
> Paris connecting East and West. Pilgrims to Haifa can visit these. Sofia,
> Albania, Dresden and Vienna have believers. The believers in
> Constantinople are timid about organizing. He asked me especially to tell
> the American friends about these places, so the pilgrims can plan to visit
> them.
> 
> If a group of about four American Bahais go to Persia they should be
> united, a working group. There would be advantages for any individual who
> should go to Persia. He or she could master the language in about a year. A
> study of Nabil's Narrative will be advantageous to anyone going to Persia.
> A study of Persian in America is not practicable now but eventually
> America will have to have a teacher of Persian.
> 
> In reply to questions from a young person as to choosing a profession,
> Shoghi Effendi said that the ideal is to give half one's time to the Cause
> and half to earning one's living. He advised a young person who wishes to
> help in spreading the Bahai teachings to master the Iqan and the
> Answered
> Questions. Select passages for memorizing so as to be able to quote
> without referring to books. Persian teachers do this. Someone spoke about
> memorizing whole Tablets and all the Hidden Words. He said it was better
> to make selections for memorizing.
> 
> It is all right to make use of outlines in studying the teachings, but one
> should not make a creed of what any teacher gives out.
> 
> Nabil's Narrative will make us more conversant with the early history
> than the Persians. Their knowledge is fragmentary. We should memorize
> the most important proper names in this book. It was written between
> 1890 and 1892. Baha U'llah encouraged Nabil to write it and made some
> suggestions about the book. Abdul-Baha revised certain passages.
> 
> Prejudice will be overcome only through suffering.
> 
> No religion is final, not even the Bahai. In the Hidden Words Baha U'llah
> says that in this revelation only two letters are given; B and H. This
> indications further revelation. Progressive revelation is the basis of Bahai
> Teachings. Unity of mankind is the distinguishing feature of the Bahai
> revelation
> 
> When asked whether he felt rested after his vacation he said that he came
> back rested, but already begins to get tired. He has worked very hard this
> fall. The Bahai work is still highly centralized although the National
> Assemblies have taken
> 
> [page 5]
> 
> over much. He said that the amount of service rendered by the American
> Bahais, particularly those on the N.S.A. was remarkable when we consider
> that those Bahais carry on their own individual professions too.
> 
> Bahais should understand that there is no interdiction of marriage with
> non-believers. (In fact such marriage with a non-believer may be good. The
> Bahai may win his mate to be a believer..) But Bahais must claim the right
> of their religion, must be free to exercise their religion just as members
> of other religious bodies are. This is very difficult in case of marriage
> with Catholics.
> 
> The so-called marriage Tablet in the blue prayer book is probably only a
> report of a talk to an individual. The ceremony for a Bahai marriage is in
> the Akdas. When this is translated it will be required of all Bahais in
> addition to civil marriage. Also consent of both parents must be gained for
> a Bahai marriage. This will make a testing ground in the future. On points
> like this, Bahais will have to show their loyalty; i.e., Bahais will sooner or
> later have to take firm stand as members of a corporate religious body.
> 
> In regard to keeping the fast in a family where some members are not
> Bahai, he said that firmness, tact, and faith would enable one to do this.
> The fast is of such duration. If a doctor is consulted he should be one that
> both people have confidence in.
> 
> Then someone asked about prayer he said; "Pour out your heart to God
> freely and fully. Then do something. God cannot work through you unless
> you act. In case of illness consult and expert doctor." One person said she
> prayed for a professor to become a Bahai. He said to pray not only that a
> professor but other capable people become Bahais, those who are position
> to attract those whom we cannot. Difficult ties in a group will not be
> removed by prayer alone. All must rise to consult and act to remove
> difficulties.
> 
> Directions about obligatory prayer are as reported by Mrs. True and Mrs.
> Moffat. The only obligatory group praying is a burial prayer which is not
> yet translated.
> 
> The Bahai idea of God is of a personal God, not an idea of God as a blind
> force. A personal God is a conscious God, but not an anthropomorphic God.
> This came out in a discussion of Dr. Forel and his relations to the Bahai
> movement. Dr. Forel did not fully understand the Bahai idea of God.
> 
> Regarding someone who claimed to get messages from Abdul Baha in the
> other world, Shoghi Effendi said that she should not impose her supposed
> messages on anyone else. Abdul Baha had said that most of such
> communications is imagination. Psychic experiences are an especial
> temptation to spiritual people, and if they gain strength this way and don't
> impose their communications on others, it is all right. They should be
> willing to admit, however, that about 80% of such supposed
> communication is imagination. It is very hard to draw the line between
> psychic and spiritual. Psychic activities if carried to excess lead to bad
> health and insanity. The Tablet on phychic forces addressed to Anna Mason
> Hoar, (Star, Vol. 10, p344,) Shoghi Effendi thinks poorly translated,
> overstated. He would like to see the original.
> 
> Having teachers give all their time to the Cause is an exceptional
> occurance. This one half time plan (of dividing one's time between service
> to the Cause and to one's profession) enables one to observe both kinds of
> worship and tends to keep one balanced.
> 
> METADATA
> 
> Views16526 views since posted 1997; last edit 2025-09-30 13:14 UTC;
> 
> previous at archive.org.../paine_notes_table_talk;
> URLs changed in 2010, see archive.org.../bahai-library.org
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> Typed 1997 by Robert Stauffer.
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> Citation: ris/752
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> — *Notes on Shoghi Effendi's Table Talk (Used by permission of the curator)*